i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. ♪ cruise missile. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. and happy valentine's day. but let me start tonight with this. did richard nixon know when he took the republican party into dixie a half century ago that this would be the way it would end up? did he realize that his southern strategy would lead the grand old party into an ambush by its right wing confederates? did he know that the abraham lincoln party once anchored in the midwest and with both coasts would fall victim to the radical

backlash of anger and mccarthyism all in the face of one man, ted cruz of texas. cruz now calls out the gop leadership as haters of the truth, frauds, really, who are secretly in bed with nancy pelosi. i have never seen in all my years of watching politics a member of a political party so brazenly attack the very party he is a member of. this a mutiny that cruz is trying to start, a radical change in the republican party itself, or it is something else? is it an historic chance to blow the party apart and start something very different in its place? a hard right party, viciously ideological, righteously antagonistic to the american mainstream. steve latourette from ohio. he is now head of the superpac defending main street, which pushes mainstream over republican tea party types. and david corn the washington bureau chief for mother jones and an msnbc political analyst.

mr. latourette, thank you for joining us. ted cruz this week showed once again why some of his biggest critics are his fellow republicans in washington. after forcing republican senators to vote on whether or not to avoid defaulting on the national debt, he explained on a right-wing radio show that they just wanted, well, he did, a show vote. let's listen. >> in the 13 months i've been in the senate, it has become apparent to me the single thing that republican politicians hate and fear the most, and that is when they're forced to tell the truth. it makes their heads explode. an awful lot of the republicans wanted exactly what barack obama wanted, exactly what nancy pelosi wanted, exactly what harry reid wanted, which is to raise the debt ceiling, but they wanted to be able to tell what they view as their foolish, gullible constituents back home they didn't do it. >> many latourette, you remember

the caucus. i've heard of a member of the caucus of either party:00 i don't know what party he is in, but his snarling attack on the people makes me think he is not into changing the republican party, he is into exploding it. i think rand paul wants to change it. this guy wants to start something new and fan natcally right wing. your thoughts. i don't know what he is up. to. >> i don't know what he is up to. but if he is anxious to start a new party, i wish he would get on with it already. we really aren't so crazy about him in the republican party. you know, i didn't hear that interview, but i did see what he did last week on the cloture vote amount. to do that to mitch mcconnell, cornyn, to make them switch their votes so he could have a show vote when he was going to go quietly into the good night as well. it was like the government shutdowns. okay. what is plan b. so you don't do this, what are you going to do? and sadly, he never gets to the next step. >> you know, there is no -- david, i know you're from the other side, the progressive

side, and i like to join you most of the time. but the fact of the matter, looking at the republican party, i got to tell you, this isn't a nuance. this isn't let's move a couple of notches to the right. this is you guys are all frauds. >> right. >> you're in bed with nancy pelosi, to use a political phrase, and you're not to be trusted. he is saying this on mark levine's show. there is a hater anyway. but he is on there trashing what he claims to be a member of. i think he has joe mccarthy tendencies. he is all about indicting everyone around him as some sort of traitor. >> there is a profound dramatic divide within congressman latourette's party that ted cruz and others are trying to make even more profound and more dramatic. it's between those who want to disrupt and blow up the government and those who want to work within the system towards conservative ends. and ted cruz and his comrades will not be satisfied. they remind me of the old stalinists that they see the real threat not from nancy pelosi and the progressives. the real threat is people on

their side who aren't as pure, who are competing with the same base for votes and support. so they're turning against their own. and you have the senate conservative fund coming out against boehner. now they're turning out against mcconnell. >> so the real enemy is mcconnell, but it may also be rand paul. here is another point of view, gentlemen. "the washington examiner," a conservative newspaper wrote today that the anger cruz embodies in his soul and body i suppose represents many of the republican base. anyway, quote, here is what he had to say there are a lot of republicans, it's not clear how many, but a significant portion of the party's base that cheers cruz on when he battles with senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. they want to see a republican throw a wrench into the washington spending machine, even if it creates chaos and damages the gop's standing with independent voters. and it is that conviction that is really behind the party's problems. it's why republicans would not enjoy smooth sailing even if cruz were to retire tomorrow. i'm not so sure that is true. i think people matter, mr.

latourette. i'm one of those who believes that history is run by certain people that if there wasn't a charles degaulle, france would look very different today. if there wasn't a roosevelt, life in the 20th century would look different which was tough enough. vicious ideologues like cruz matter. >> well, i'll use the word scalawag as an alternative. >> those were the guys who worked for the carpetbaggers by the way. >> well, yeah. >> those were the guys who historically worked for the carpetbaggers. >> well, being from ohio, it doesn't surprise me that all the states that left the union are causing a problem at the moment. i think ted cruz is in it for himself, first of all. and second of all, i disagree with your if ted cruz were to retire tomorrow, the republicans would have a better time of it. because what he is trying to do is corner the market from this segment. i don't think it's a huge segment, but there is a segment of the republican base that

loves this stuff, and they're very happy when he engages in this because there is no connection between running the country and just throwing bombs. and they love the bomb-throwing. >> he hates government, doesn't he? by the way, can i show another view of right wingers before you get in here? >> sure, go ahead, chris. >> this is not your home team. >> go ahead. i did have a point to make. >> after mcconnell led republicans to break cruz's filibuster, the wrath of right wing organizations came down on mcconnell. brent bozell said, quote, americans deserve better than fake leaders who make empty promises and deliver zero results. it's time to dump the leadership. matt kibbe on this show a lot said, quote, between the grassroots frustration with mitch mcconnell and with john boehner, it's the perfect storm. and conservative blogger erick erickson wrote that republicans had abdicated their responsibility. quote, mitch mcconnell was the deciding vote in the senate to move forward.

john boehner and erik cantor structured this deal in the house. primaries matter. until you defeat these guys, you will do nothing to change washington. this is a mutiny. >> now, i like congressman latourette, and i feel his pain. but i wonder if he is being a little too optimistic when he says this is just a small segment of the republican base. because even without ted cruz, you have all these groups out there, a lot of them getting big funding from the koch brothers and others, and they're appealing to a wider swath. >> okay. >> and you would still have a mutiny against mcconnell, a mutiny against boehner without ted cruz. >> he is engaged. >> be engaged. >> listen, david, i couldn't disagree with you more. my problem with these folks, matt kibbe and the rest and erick erickson, the day i retired from congress, erick erickson said best news of the century. and i'm thinking to me, wait a minute, didn't we land on the moon and we did this, we did that. so these people are into creating things. so they're into raising money and making money.

and it's a very small bunch of very rich people who have a disproportionate voice in democracy in this country, and they play to that. but i don't think if you look at a republican primary, maybe it's 25% of the people agree with what these folks are doing. >> okay. before we go on, because joe biden says something really smart. before we get to that, i get a little impulsive here. my question to you is once you have lost christie as a probable front-runner, he could get back into this thing if he clears his name, but we're going to get to that in the next segment. he is probably not going to clear his name, but we'll see. the fact is who do you have as a reasonable republican who could beat hillary clinton? i mean, beat her. >> i'll tell you somebody who i didn't think that i would see as emerging is mike pence of indiana who is aer have very conservative guy. but he has embraced public television for instance as governor of indiana. >> a moderate. >> oh, stop it, david. >> that was me. i get downton abbey turned him around. now you're boring me together

with pence. i thought you were going to say scott walker. boring to death. he is not going to go in where. joe biden did say something really smart. he made this historic quote about the opposition, the republicans and their lack of a clear leader who can make deals and hold to them. this is so important. let's watch. >> there isn't a republican party. i wish there were. i wish there was a republican party. i wish there was one person you could sit across the table from, make a deal, make a compromise and know when you got up from that table it was done. that's what political parties -- that's what nancy is able to do. that's what the president is able to commit to. but there is no -- all you had to do is look at the response of the state of the union. what were there, three or four? i'm not being facetious. >> he really had a good part there, congressman. he said the democrats at least had a spokesman, the president of the united states. your party, your erstwhile party, whatever it is in your context, it just seemed to have

three to four people. an official response, a tea party response, it had a mike lee response. i mean, it seemed to have everything. >> rand paul. >> everybody was talking, but nobody was leading. >> well, listen, it was surprising to hear the vice president say that. and i think maybe got a bad clam out there on the eastern shore. he has made not one but two deals with mitch mcconnell. paul ryan made a deal with patty murray. the president made a deal with john boehner. we can argue about who broke that deal. so while the fire drill on state of the union night was a mess, i don't dispute that at all, the fact that there is nobody speaking or being able to sit down and negligent a deal, john boehner put a clean debt ceiling vote on the floor. i don't think it gets any clearer than that as to whether or not there is leadership. >> thank you, steve latourette. thanks for coming. we'll see what happens. i say blurb that. and happy valentine's day on that note. >> happy valentine's day. >> and thank you, david corn. chris christie tries to

defend himself against charges of political bullying, he is finding there is no exit, as they say in jersey, on his personal new jersey turnpike for all the past is coming up. you should see the reporters digging new dirt. we have great stuff tonight about where this guy came from. and it's hardly what lawyers call exculpatory. plus, republicans have been hoping to keep the minimum wage right where it is without having to vote on it. i've been saying republicans should be forced to actually vote against an increase if they're against it. now democrats are trying to make them do it with a discharge petition. and the final votes are being cast in the uaw's attempt to unionize a volkswagen plant down in tennessee. vw isn't even opposed. but anti-union republicans are fighting this fight, well, against unions. finally, let me finish tonight with the republican party's two biggest bomb-throwers and the trouble they're likely to cause the party. and that is "hardball," the place for politics. bill, and he forgot. you have the it card and it's your first time missing a payment, so there's no late fee. really? yep! so is your husband off the hook? no. he went out for milk last week and came back with a puppy. hold it. hold it. hold it.

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welcome back to "hardball." as i've said before, no matter where the road ends for chris christie, there is no escape from new jersey, no exit, that is. christie's has been embroiled in multiple investigations which has invaded the governor's inner sanctum, his circle of trust as he puts it. but perhaps just as troubling for christie is his pass which reporters are exploring with zeal and intensity you don't find often. the story they're piecing together may be more telling than anything we have seen to date. in a story chronicling the

christie years, quote, bridgegate wasn't a sudden fall from grace. it was just the first time anyone was paying attention. as alec mcgillis writes in a tremendously thorough piece in the new republic, quote, when he got cozy with democratic bosses, people only saw a man willing to work across the aisle. when they bullied his opponents, they only saw a truth-teller. it was one of the most efficient optical illusions in american politics until it wasn't. brian murphy knows the new jersey landscape as well as anyone in the business. and he was friends with bill baroni back when he was a reporter. he is now a professor in new york. let me start with alec mcgillis. it seems to me when i look back at your writing here, what struck me was first of all, this whole talk about bullying. bullying his way on to a ballot. i mean, anybody whoever runs for office, and i did, you have to have a certain number of

signatures. they're subject to challenge. in a name is wrong or doesn't match up with an address or match up with a name on a street list, it gets stricken. and you have to come up with enough names to make up for that. apparently christie didn't like the rules, so he went to court a couple of times. tell us about it. >> you're right. the first time around he didn't have enough signatures, so he was thrown off the ballot on his very first attempt for the state senate in new jersey. he then ran for the -- sort of took a step down and ran for the county freeholder board in morris county where he moved to. in that case, the striking thinking about that case is he ran such a harsh ad against his opponents that he was hit with a defamation suit. >> which he lost. >> three defamation suits that he was hit with, that he was involved in in his first few years in office. even more striking is that when he won that seat in morris county using that pretty rough ad, he then turned right around, four weeks later after taking office and announced his run for the general assembly for state office. so this was a man in a hurry.

>> let's go to the rotten stuff here, that looks rotten on the surface. you tell me whether it is or not, alec, and you get in here too, brian. when you accuse your opponent being under investigation by federal local authorities, you're basically saying the guy is a crook. now, it turns out, right, alec, he was under investigation. he lost that suit but still won. so the dirty business worked. let's take a look at the ad he ran which turned out to be totally unfounded. here it is. >> hi. my name is chris christie. i got into this race for morris county freeholder for the promise of a better future for my family and yours. but the daily record has called the current incumbent's fumbling, bumbling amateurs, and now they're being investigated by the morris county prosecutor. >> and now they're being investigated by the morris county prosecutor. true or false? >> that was not true. all that was happening at that time was that there was an attempt by the local county prosecutor to get some records from a meeting that had been closed. he was simply requesting some minutes of this meeting.

but this really goes to the heart of my piece, which is that christie all along has been incredibly effective at setting himself up against perceived corruption in new jersey, setting himself up against the new jersey political culture as the reformer, as the crusading reformer when in fact, as our piece shows, he has been very adept at kind of working that machine to his own benefit at the same time he was kind of running against it. >> brian, the past is prologue here. that right? are we seeing a back room? are we seeing a route to where he is today in his past? >> yes. this article -- this is a great article. it's one of these pieces where i wish i had written it, but it's so good that i don't feel jealous, because i can just recommend it to me. -- people. it's a grand unified theory on christie's rise to power which jersey has a problem with corruption. this is not -- it's not particularly news. it's not a surprise to people. but the way christie has used corruption, participated in the

prosecution of corruption and set himself off against it as a way to get power and to leverage that for his own benefit in ways that are -- it's the selective prosecutions and the selective use of his -- the selective way he -- >> isn't all prosecution discretionary? >> right. >> isn't it up to you as u.s. attorney and state to go where you want to go? is that part of the deal or not? i don't know. you tell me. >> it seems like it is. it seems implicit. one of the points that alec raise series that in 2002, and i covered this race when joe di vicenza, there were stories around that he was under investigation or had done something wrong. christie's office, the attorneys office put out a statement giving joe d., saying that there was nothing wrong here. giving the guy right before the primaries, this tight, tough primary fight he was in, saying that he was exonerated, right.

exonerated from the trial and the investigation that we're not sure ever happened. and then six years later, he is partnering with joe di and getting that endorsement when he is running for governor. the article is very good at putting -- when we look back now, this all starts to add up and look much different. >> let me rush back to this again. this is what gets to me. there is something that comes through here. my limited experience in old philly politics, maybe it's sthil way is the whole thing the magistrate had an open door. you went in for a magistrate case, a small illegal case, and the drawer was open, okay. you're supposed to put something in there. this idea that everything is what's in it for me. you sit in a member's office, they go okay, you're not getting the point i want you to get to. what are you giving me. and that's what comes out of the hoboken case. it comes out of the bridge thing. the governor wants the mayor's support. he doesn't get it so, the bridge stops. the hoboken doesn't support him on a deal so they don't get the federal money.

it just strikes me as it's that kind of what do you call transactional politics is the fancy word for it. but it's what's in it for me. a third world company. you have to bay the baksheesh. you have to pay the money to the guy you're dealing with whether it's a cop or a trooper with a gun in his hand. he wants cigarettes or something. is that the way new jersey works, and has this governor been playing that game? >> he has been playing that game much more than we realized. all along he made himself out to be the guy who was trying to change that. but precisely going after certain people, really going after the is more small fry people and leaving some of the biggest power brokers in power who became even more powerful because he had cleared out some of the underbrush. >> what is his deal with norcross? >> right. so the classic example is george norcross. he is this incredibly powerful democratic political boss in south jersey. just hugely influential. and chris christie and this really remarkable moment back when he was prosecutor decided to go after him, decided not to prosecute him.

but not only that, he put out a letter blaming the state attorneys general for having bungled the case so he could not pursue it. thereby inoculating him against any suggestion that he was showing favoritism to norcross. he basically accused the other guys of showing favoritism. it was brilliant. it was machiavellmachiavellian. a meeting with george norcross while he was under s.e.c. and state investigations, what is chris christie doing meeting for dinner with this fellow? he was looking ahead for his own political career. >> i'm still wondering that about that case where he pulled out the prosecutors that had made a case against some local friends of his in the sheriff's office. the next thing you know they're fired. the sheriff is free to walk. last thought, brian. does that fit? >> i think it does. and the interesting thing about this is just how much this all begins to fall into place when you look back on it in light of the recent six weeks or few

months. >> yeah. >> that all of the moves that christie made seem to have been geared toward a run for governor, a run for the reelection campaign as governor, whatever else he might have been planning beyond that. but the degree to which he was making these strategic alliances in ways that people didn't realize at the time and that you can only begin to put together when you start really digging into this and looking backwards. >> okay, thank you so much. alec mcgillis and brian. what is steve stockman doing talking about john cornyn's pants? this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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presidential parody cards to share with the political junkie in your life. first off, there is jfk, the jfk-inspired card which reads "let's heat up this cold war." a little sexual innuendo there. next, ronald reagan, "you've trickled down into ms. heart. george w. bush, i didn't find any weapons on mass destruction, but i did find you. that doesn't work for me, by the way. and not to be outdone, funny or die had some of their own, including this one from al gore. i invented valentine's day. i like that one. and this from george w. bush. kissin accomplished. but the real main event in washington, d.c. this valentine's day is the release of season 2 of "house of cards." even president obama got in on the anticipation with a simple request to everyone on twitter last night. quote, tomorrow, "house of cards." no spoilers, please. of course, the president has made no secret of his love of the online series. in a december white house meeting, he asked netflix ceo reed hastings for an advanced

copy of the second season, but it seems he had to wait, the president did, like everyone else. good for him. up next, you have heard of one man, one vote. but what about $1, one vote? believe it or not, it's the latest bright idea from billionaire venture capitalist tom perkins who says your right to vote should come at a cost. so those who don't pay income tax don't get the right to vote. in fact, he says the power of your vote should be proportionate to the amount of money you pay in taxes. in other words, you make more money, you get more votes. if you make no money, you lose your right to vote. here is what he said at an event yesterday. >> thomas jefferson at the beginning of this country thought that to vote, you had to be a landowner. now, that didn't last very long, and the vote was given to everyone. but the basic idea was you had to be a taxpayer or a person of property to vote. the tom perkins system is you don't get to vote unless you pay a dollar of taxes. but what i really think is it

should be like a corporation. if you pay a million dollars in taxes, you should get a million votes. how is that? >> i think he was joking, don't you think? i hope. anyway you heard people laughing there. but while perkins knew he was being provocative, well, maybe he wasn't joking, maybe he was. he was smiling. perkins, by the way, who has an estimated net worth, no surprise here, $8 billion, is no stranger to controversy. in a "wall street journal" letter to the editor just last month, he compared to the demonization of the 1% to nazi germany's kristallnacht when nazi storm troopers killed jewish business owners across germany and austria. with ideas like those and metaphors like those, no wonder perkins feel he is being demonized. finally, yesterday the tea party-backed challenger to john cornyn tweeted, quote, if you're chilly tonight, huddle near john cornyn's pants, that's right,

pants for warmth. well, it seemed like an odd suggestion, especially since the joke was lost on almost everyone. as it turns out, stockman thought it was a clever way of calling his opponent a liar in reference to the old jingle "liar liar pants on fire." look, if you have to explain the joke, it's not funny. up next, republicans want to stop a minimum wage increase without actually having to vote against it. hmm. and democrats want to let them do it. vote yes or no and pay for it. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. who are we? we are the thinkers. the job jugglers. the up all-nighters. and the ones who turn ideas into action. we've made our passions our life's work. we strive for the moments where we can say, "i did it!" ♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours.

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i'm milissa rehberger. here is what is happening. jury deliberations in florida have ended for the day in the case of michael dunn. he is accused of shooting an unarmed teenager over loud music. dunn claims he acted in self-defense. president obama is in fresno, where he will be addressing california's historic

drought. he is expected to announce millions in aid for struggling farmers. and it's been a tough winter for fliers. more than 75,000 domestic flights have been canceled since december 1, the most in 25 years. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." this week president obama signed an executive order to raise the minimum wage to $10.10 for federal contract workers. well, now democrats plan to force a vote to make that $10.10 minimum wage national. on wednesday on this show, i called on democrats to make republicans take a vote on minimum wage by forcing the issue with what is called the legislative maneuver called a discharge petition. here i go. >> well, how do you get this done? it seems to me you go to republicans. take the 28 guys, bob, the 28 guys and woman, i guess some

women in there who voted the other day with the speaker, moderate republicans, if you will. northeastern guys like me and people like peter king. we know their names. there is not that many of them to know. go to them and say sign this discharge petition. a discharge petition is when you go to a member and say are go going to bring this to a volt on the floor or not? stop hiding on this thing. they then are forced to sign it or they don't sign it and you nail them. why don't the democrats do that? >> thing is going to be a vote in the senate. >> no, why don't they do that? i still wanted an answer. they listened. the democrats at the retreat. yesterday they said they were forced to vote on minimum wage. here it is. >> we are prepared to submit a discharge petition to begin the process of collecting the votes it will take in the house of representatives to pass a bill to increase the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour for all americans. >> 60% of the beneficiaries of the a minimum wage increase

would be women. >> right now we're starting with the minimum wage. it's part of our women's economic agenda when women succeed, america succeeds. >> if there is a republican who will not sign this discharge petition because they argue that the economy cannot afford an increase in the minimum wage, people are going to want to know why that same republican continues to vote for a minimum subsidy for big oil companies of $40 billion every ten years. >> well, that was a good combination. hit them for the minimum wage and hit them in the oil companies. good work there by steve israel. that's a strong showing of support. joining me right now is u.s. congressman elijah cummings, democrat of maryland, and nbc news political reporter kasie hunter who is following the fight up there it's a great way to put fire under the keisters of republicans. you force them to come out against the minimum wage. will it work? >> i think we can get it to work. no doubt about it. you know, we've been successful seven times in the past with

regard to discharge petitions. and then there were more than ten times where they were discharge petitions presented, chris, and even before we got to the 218 number that is required to get to it a vote, the other side then presented it to the floor. so i think there is a good shot at doing it, because this is a very urgent issue with now approaching two to three million of our people in trouble. we got to do something. >> let's talk about the minimum wage, because the irony is, congressman, you've probably looked at the polls like i've looked at it. a majority 56%, a majority of people who vote republican are for a higher minimum wage for the $10.10. >> because -- >> go ahead. >> because. >> they understand that they want their neighbors, their friends to be able to go to work, and working full-time and they want them to be able to take care of their families. it's very simple.

approximately two-thirds of these minimum wage workers are women. and on valentine's day, what a better way to celebrate than having -- going forward to make sure that these women are making a decent wage. >> you charmer, you. anyway, let me ask you this. seriously, i shouldn't have said that, but it is a nice statement there. here is my question to you. 56% of republicans support a minimum wage increase to $10.10, why did 100% of the republicans in the house of representatives, the body you serve, why did they vote against it to the last person last year? what is the disconnect in the republican party between members and people? >> i honestly do not understand that. chris, these are their constituents. these are the folks that they're going to look in the face tonight as they sit down with their loved ones who are going to be waiting on them on one of the most significant restaurant nights, by the way, in the country. they're going to be sitting there, and they're going to be looking at somebody -- and by the way, restaurant workers in

many states are working $2.13 an hour and tips. you have those folks making way below the minimum wage, and you've got others making $7.25 doing a lot of jobs that are very, very important. the president started it. i thought what he did was very significant with regard to workers for those who are contracting for the federal government. that was a great step. but america, you are absolutely right, chris. it's not just republicans. it's democrats, it's independents. they saul say let's lift up this minimum wage. so we have to take the fight to the congress. we have to unfortunately embarrass some of our friends. >> i think so. let me get back to the reporting on this. thank you, casey. you're covering the hill. is this doable? you have 200 democrats. you need 218 votes for a discharge to the floor. how does it look? >> with all respect to the congressman, i think it's a long shot at best. a discharge signing for anyone for a republican would be a hostile act. it's like saying to speaker john boehner, we don't like the way

you're running the place, even though he is the majority, he is their leader. and then if you think about the republicans who might be willing to sign on to this from a political perspective, say those in swing districts, people with a lot of workers in their districts, suburban cities in philadelphia, congressman mike -- pat meehan, mike fitzpatrick, exactly. those are exactly the kind of people who are going to be standing with john boehner. they're the ones who have stood with him all along. and he is not putting this forward on the floor, they're not necessarily going to be signing it. what this really is -- >> i hadn't thought of that. people with a lot of workers and union strength are particularly loyal to boehner against the crazy right. congressman, i go back to you. isn't that a conundrum for you? >> it's a difficult situation. but, again, this is becoming a moral issue, and it always has been a moral issue. you can't have somebody making -- working full time, chris, with one child making

$14,000 a year and in poverty. that's ridiculous. we have got to force the moral issue. i think that's what the president is going to be doing. that's what wary going to be doing. we can't give up the fight. we can't throw up our hands and say we can't do this, because there are people depending on us. a lot of people said we couldn't get the debt ceiling done, but it got done. you know, i get tired of all of these arguments of no, we can't the get things done. yes, we can get them done. >> right. >> and we will. >> that sounds like me sometimes. i'm with him. but here is the question. what is the deal going to be? if they do go forward, do they need tax cuts for small business? that's the usual thing. you get a minimum wage hike for republicans, getting something for business. >> exactly. then again, business hasn't shown to have all that much sway with republicans in this congress anyway. >> but why are they against minimum wage, then? who is fighting it? >> the argument is also going to turn. the other thing i will say, even if they're not successful here at the federal level, there is a significant push in the states. arkansas is one state that is

going to have a ballot initiative on the minimum wage in the state. so it will be interesting to see. >> it will win. >> what democrats do. >> i think smart conservative politics is to be for minimum wage hike, because it keeps society together. you don't want to have a big division. last word, congressman. >> by the way, maryland, my state, and governor o'malley to his credit has got a wonderful minimum wage bill which i predict is going to pass. i'm going to be testifying on it monday in annapolis. so what we're doing on the federal level is having an affect. a lot of local jurisdictions are raising the minimum wage. happy valentine's day to everyone. >> hey, thank you, congressman. it's always nice to have you on. by the way, there are more workers than there are employers. they should win this fight. >> that's right. >> thank you, casey, for coming here. up next, the huge political stakes behind the attempts to unionize workers down in tennessee. volkswagen apparently doesn't mind being unionized. it's the republicans who don't want them unionized. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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politicians who are fighting against unionization. republican politicians are more opposed to the plant actually unionizing than the vw, volkswagen. republicans are fearing the influence republicans are feari influence of the democratic leanilean ing yun on their home turf in tennessee. some of the world's biggest automakers have built plants in the south, toyota, kentucky, honda in alabama, bmw in south carolina, mercedes in alabama. as i said, vw in tennessetennes. the biggest automakers are centered in michigan and the midwest, the foreign automakers built plants in this country in recent years in southern right to work states. later tonight we'll learn whether united autoworkers union gets a toe hold in that south. join meing me now is harold for and john nichols who writes for "the nation." put it in perspective. is there a fear on part of the republicans that a lot of union members will become democrats and it will create a different

political culture down there? what's the fear on the republican side? >> i think you take them their word on one front, there's concern by republican leaders in tennessee if the plant is unionized and give momentum and force unions to do this in other places in the south and at the nissan plant there in tennessee, if you look at the flip side of this, you know, vw has not opposed this effort in any way. if they are in opposition, they're using tennessee republicans including bob corker and the governor, bill has lam, to do it. i'm encouraged by it and find it intriguing. if indeed they're able to put together the kind of work council vw has with its employees across the globe at other plants where it's working and working successfully, if the uaw is able to bind to that, if they wind tonight and cooperate and work with management on a whole range of issues related to productivity and pay and so fort, and attracting new jobs there, this could be a new model for the uaw which is obviously what they're looking for and hoping for no the long run.

>> what's the fight about, john nichols, work rules problematic for management, that's negotiable, or is it the pay? is the way they're giving people lower in michigan or indiana or where they're unionized? >> the pay lower in southern plants sometimes as much as 20 bucks an hour. when you combine the pay and the benefits. >> i don't think in this instance it's as low as that, though, john, in fairness to the tennessee model, i think this plant is not as low -- it may be in some instances but not near. >> let me finish the thought here. there are many, many different work positions and in some cases, the pay is substantially less. and the key thing here, though, is that this is about more than pay. this is also about a question of whether these southern plants fit into the global plans of these companies. these companies have come into the united states to get a place in the u.s. market. and in most other countries, they do operate with works

councils. this is a different model. it's something that the uaw has had to learn about, get comfortable with, and i have to say what's happening here in tennessee is a big kind of shift for the uaw. they are accepting a different model, a model that would put unionized workers and nonunionized workers at the table helping to manage the plant. if that works, and if that makes southern folks who have sometimes been resistant to unions more comfortable, that's the big deal here because then -- >> that's good for america. >> the other plants get to -- >> that's good for management. it seems to me one concern, if you have any problem with the unions or even if you're very pro union, work rules can drive you crazy. people say i'm not going to do that, it's not my job when in fact it makes no sense to say it's not your job. some case maybe yoiru're exploited. pay is something people really want and benefits as you said, john. you think the mechanic who works

in nashville or wherever, in chattanoo chattanooga, is getting paid something like the guy or woman working up in detroit? is that a fact or not? >> no, i think -- i agree with john. i was only making a point. i think the specifics here, we can get into the pay. i'm not defending either side. i think some areas -- i don't think tennessee falls in that category. john's point is the right point. this could provide a new model. each side is going to have to compromise a bit here. volkswagon if this passes volkswagon is going to see a work council slightly different than they've seen in their plants around the globe. the uaw is going to enter into an agreement as john articulated so well that they don't have those kind of operating agreements at other plants around the country. the beauty of this, chris, it could provide a model going forward for working, for unions and for that matter for innovation, workplace agreements to be structured and implemented across the country. >> i'm hopeful here. i'm very hopeful, john. i hope we get something done here. i want something new. a new paradigm where workers get represented by their people and

have good relationship with management. we get good productivity. this could be good for everybody. i'm not singing a song here. i think that's where the direction has to go. thank you so much, harold ford. thank you, congressman, for coming on. thank you, john nichols. let me finish tonight with the republican party's two big bomb throwers. one is worse than the other one. we'll be right back after this. you stopped by the house? uh-huh. yea. alright, whenever you get your stuff, run upstairs, get cleaned up for dinner. you leave the house in good shape? yea. yea, of course. ♪ [ sportscaster talking on tv ] last-second field go-- yea, sure ya did. [ male announcer ] introducing at&t digital life. personalized home security and automation. get professionally monitored security for just $29.99 a month. with limited availability in select markets. ♪ with limited availability in select markets. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there ar24/7.branches? i'm sorry, i'm just really reluctant to try new things. really? what's wrong with trying new things? look! mommy's new vacuum! (cat screech) you feel that in your muscles?

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having a great february. or a great 2014. it had a reasonably good shot at winning the american middle. that was before new year's and before the governor of new jersey, unlikely but certainly credible presidential candidate got into trouble. today it faces a strange battle between the right and the far right. between rand paul and ted cruz. both of whom seem determined to do something to the republican party besides lead it. yes, they both want to be the nominee in 2014, but they want something else as well. paul wants to change it into the barry goldwater party of 1964 where it was before it began to groom itself into something for presidential at the presidential level. cruz i think is fair to guess has more radical notions and ambitions. it's hard to see him wanting to make the party more appealing. he seems to want to make the party smaller, more ideological, more angry. more indictive, not just of democrats bull s but on those l it. he seems bent on some sort of explosion that leaves few

standing except for ted cruz who will have the running room to construct the party more of his bend. angrier, more radical, yes, more frightening. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. have a very happy valentine's day. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes, and happy valentine's day, america. from the state that hails itself as the place for lovers. >> good morning. happy valentine's day. >> gay couples have scored a legal victory in virginia where a federal judge has ruled the state's ban on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional. >> today, we are more american than we were yesterday, and today we're a little more equal than we were the day